...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment.

Plenty of reasons to go there... materials, resources, faction warfare .... the list goes on. All non criminal activities

Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason.

Criminals are not banned under the logic of the original post. They would be required to monitor their status if they want to stage in highsec as gankers, that is all. If their status gets to bad, they instantly get wrecked to **** for pissing off faction police and concord so much. Then they say sorry (repair their status through tags / mission running - which also bring more importance to the economy of tags) and be more careful next time.

Just read the OP.

Such a wanna-be noob. Just go play eve and get wrecked.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?

Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins?

It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE?

under that logic, you could claim that about any game

Every criminal eventually gets caughts if their crimes get big enough...

Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.

Id be nice, but jumping from gate to gate as a fleet makes holding the fleet down impossible. Simply because the jump is to fast and invulnerability while warping. You would need a full fleet (50+) to effectively protect your freighter from getting ganked.

I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that.

I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.

How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted.

Well, you haven't explained to me why criminals in EVE shouldn't be treated like criminals though. So if you can't answer that simple question, then don't expect anyone else to answer your questions.

Maybe you should do a google search of what a criminal is and how they are treated by the law enforcement before you claim to know how a criminal is supposed to be?

Yeah, but its not strict enough. You should only be able to fly a pod or shuttle in highsec with a -10.0 status, not a potential gank ships. Lower your security status and you get to fly bigger and bigger ships. Its called being accountable for your criminal activity.

If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal.

Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle.

And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police.

The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks.

Doesn't that sounds fair?

Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke.

didnt we already have this conversation...

No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes.

please... keep the thread going so that it gains more tracking and attention. I dont mind because the first thing that is read is the OP.

Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences on continuing dpoing the crimes.

Well, and lock criminals out of HS.

Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up.

If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC.

Then it will be something else.

Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations.

So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place?

OK .

Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid.

Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama?

Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things.

Yeah, they have to prepeare their freighter for PVP if they intentionally are going through low sec or 0.0 space. That's logic. But we are still talking about freighters in high sec that should be able to do their business with the right ship intended for their job with the right setup intended for the job relatively safely in high sec without having to get ganked every 15 minutes by criminals who doesn't get any more consequences the more they gank.

That's not fair for those who endlessly gets ganked.

Prepearing for PVP is not the same as having to prepeare to get ganked all day long by gankers who will kill you anyways.

Doesn't matter how much you try to PVP fit a freighter as the gankers will just bring enough ships to kill you anyways once they have scanned your ship where they see your fittings.

The tools CCP have now to manage the risk vs reward specially when it comes to preventing getting ganked all day long without getting penalized more for continuing to do the crimes is way to bad and needs to be updated.


Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe.

Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec.

Get it now?

That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run?

You say there is plenty of explanations of why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement. But i can't seems to find those. Care to post some of those explanations that explains in highly details on why a game that is about humans as characters shouldn't be treated as humans for committing crimes?

I don't want the lame posts where someone says it's a game and it's not how EVE works, because everyone knows that. But everyone also knows that even though this is not how EVE currently works, it still can be improved / changed for the better for all sides in the long run.

Again, read over why i think the risk free ganking some of you do it stupid on why it should be changed to more a risky business to do. Because having no risks doing crimes is not whar eisk vs reward is. If you have no risks on what you are doing, you shouldn't have any rewards for it either.

And as you as a ganker have no risks except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes before you can keep doing your crimes in epire like nothing has ever happened before again, then you should get no reward for that either.

If there have been plenty of explanation on why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement, then sure, go ahead and link them to me.

Remember to not give me the lame posts where they say it's a game and this is not how EVE currently works. Because everyone knows that. Show me a post where someone have explained in highly details why a criminal in EVE shouldn't be treated as a real criminal that should face harder penalties the more crimes they do.

Again, i have got no explanations on why this is bad. ABSOLUTELY nothing.

And a freighter pilot is NOT lazy or greedy for doing it's intended job of delivering stuffs in a freigher the way a freighter is made to be in the first place.

My idea solves a big problem that the criminals has to work hader to keep ganking in high sec the more they do crimes. It's called risk vs reward. But because you have no risk, you shouldn't really have a big reward either.

It's that simple.

First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways.

Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and aover again in the infinite loop, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE.

If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards.

As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance.

And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do.

How many ******* times do i have to say this?

1. He lost a couple of million isks which isn't a loss to anyone considering what they gain for ganking a freighter.
2. The security status doesn't prevent you from committing crimes in high sec.
3. And no one of those will ever be able to catch you before you have ganked someone.

Again, HUUUUGE rewards for no risks which goes against the risk vs reward balance / concept of EVE.

The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal.

You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec.

What are those tools you are talking about?

If a freighter pilot want to do his job effectively and professioonal, then he can't just start to fit their freighters with PVP mods just so they "maybe can" save their ships if they gets unlucky getting ganked by criminals. because they aren't doing their intended job of being a freighter pilot if they PVP fit their freighters.

Yes, are they gonna freight, or are they gonna PVP?

So the tool of fitting differently for them is not really a choice.

And the 2nd tool you probably are going to say, is by using alts / friends. But tell me how a freighter pilot should be able to use an alt or friends when the freighter pilot have to use alts or friends and cover the 3-4 jumps out from every direction / to every systems from the system you are in to make sure a potential bumping Machariel isn't there or to prevent a ganking fleet of Destroyers to get the freighter as the Destrouyer fleet can easily take 3 jumps and still arrive at the freighter before it has entered warp, even without being bumped.

Using an alt or some few friends this way doesn't work when you take into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there and how fast a ganking fleet of Destroyer can move several systems before a freighter can enter warp anyways.

Im just playing by the mechanics of EVE ... Highsec means keep the damn criminals from taking over. Thats why they live in lowsec as criminals.

We have already discussed this in previous posts but you just love hanging on to this idea for some reason. Criminals lose their privledges, not law-abiding pilots. Plus, I highly doubt CCP wants to keep more people from moving into low and null sec. If anything they want more people to operate in those security spaces. Fortunately, the OP pushes people who want to protect their security status to nullsec so that they wouldnt have to do any repairing of their security status to come back into highsec.

Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.

And why you force them to change their behaviour? Because you wan't? You can? or what?

Please review the forum rules on properly quoting others. You need to remove unnecessary quote tags that make posts unnecessarily long. Forum rules prohibit it because it makes things harder to read and follow. Quote one point and leave all the other unnecessary content out.

Well i'm not a pussy to abuse a game mechanic (webbing a freighter is using a game mechanic for your favor - as it's an exploit)

Problem is still a Gangers which got at last NO enough punishment for their crimes;

And hello Code'y Guy - I'm not a miner ; ) and even if I would refuse something that stupid like "mining permit" ;]